ManatuBear wrote:Necromancer wrote:I love all the DS games ( having played and finished them all) and yes I like DS3, however as a dedicated caster, FROM really did drop the ball on pretty much everything on the magic system, which in turn has affected my enjoyment of the game ( I like to roleplay and variety is the spice of life.) I always play pure casters and make multiple spells classes, one for each school, and then mixing and matching with fashion souls to make cosplays.
I have spent 200 hours on Ds1, over a thousand hours on DS2 on ps3 , then another 1000 on scholar of the first sin. So far I am close to about 100 hours in DS3, I’ve finished NG 4 times, twice with sorc, once with miracles and once with pyro, am halfway through NG+ with one sorcerer and my pyromancer.
Magic has not been managed well in DS3, in fact it feels like an afterthought/ lower priority than melee, or was badly rushed and has suffered greatly, I don’t know if DLCs and game patches can turn this around.
1. A lot of Spells visually (and aurally) have not been upgraded in line with everything else, in fact some of them look worse the last gen, especially pyromancy, fire snake vs black fire snake. URGGHHHHH WHY FROM? Seriously? WWWHHYYYY What irks me even more the NPC's have BEAUTIFUL fire and spell effects. but we didn't get that.we got crappy worse than DS1 effects, inexcusable for a next gen console. Another example is chaosstorm, it doesn’t have the drama and power of the DS2 version, as you know pyromancies TOP TIER spell….it doesn’t even match the ds1 version it’s just really underwhelming in animation and sound, the lave pools look really cut and paste as well. Lazy or rushed, it’s a shame. I do think miracles are the exception for offensive spells only. ( divine pillars, Wog, sunlight spear etc) The support spells look kinda crappy and lack something.
2. Lack of variety, usability, functionality and good spells means limited usage in an already limited pool.
3. Reliance on too many items to boost dmg, and the massive scaling and stacking of rings to maximize the damage, really hurts caster build variety.
4. The reverse scaling means a large portion of NG is very, very boring as a pyromancer/sorcerer, replying on the same spells for a large portion, due to lack of usability on the other mid-tier spells, I am so sick of using great heavy soul arrow/CSS and then fire orb/chaos orb.
5. Conversely, once you’re full geared why would you use anything but crystal soul spears and chaos orbs? The fact you can cast so many, and the damage scaling means you rely on this more, and because all of the other spells are too risky for the dmg vs reward.
6. Spells cast timing is way too slow, have you tried using firestorm? the investment and cast time, for the random pillars to hit and do so little damage is stupid, especially when due to the stats investment I’m a glass cannon, and the enemies are so aggressive, better off just spamming fire orb, limiting play style.
7. The path to get spells is weird for pyromancy, with top tier spells available mid game, before or at the same time as lower tier spells( i can get chaos storm before firestorm)
8. The FP usage vs benefit needs to be reviewed on some spells.
9. Using the FP bar and us having to use flasks to regenerate is annoying, and takes way the strategic element of stacking copies of spells and determining spell selection before each area, the fact that when we get summoned, and then our ASHTUS is also cut in half is another poor choice, as it limits our offensive capabilities through the level and then during the boss fight, especially since we have already sacrificed other stats to get that spells slot/FP usage. It’s unbalanced for melee vs casters in invasions/summons.
10. Hexes as a class were removed and the remaining spells just aren’t that great, I always had multiple hex/dark witch characters i have no interest in doing that in DS3. It's such a shame.
11. Catalyst variety is very very poor, with a chunk of them locked behind a covenant and some of them channeling an opposite stat ( eg. faith or luck) further reducing variety.
12. They made the izalith catalyst the ONLY worthwhile catalyst for DARK. errrrr this should have been a catalyst for flame sorcery…. Wow way to miss the boat and completely stuff up your lore FROM. I mean the animations for staff pyromancy/flame sorcery have been made, felkin uses these in Ds2. You made a bajillion weapon arts, couldn’t spare some extra animations for a staff? Once again casting and magic got overlooked.
13. Other than poison spore, all catalyst have steady chant an annoying ad mostly useless stat, unless it’s the crystal sage staff, IMO that should have been that ONE staves spell art, and all other catalyst have an in individual benefit, like a cast light option, an FP regeneration option ( you know like chimes LET YOU REGENERATE HP FFS…….) it just smells of being rushed.
14. Removing infusions on catalysts just means less variety. (e.g. if you liked fashion souls, in DS2, you could infuse a staff that had say, a dark preference, for the “look”, but then, infuse with a faint stone to improve the sorcery scaling and make it more viable or vice versa.)
I know I sound harsh, but its true, and yes while I still LOVE the game, in terms of being a caster and playing multiple play throughs ad PVP DS3 has failed me personally. I do still like the single player campaign though. The lore is still good and the visuals on some locations breathtaking.
I hope the DLC addresses this.
I disagree with ALL of that.
Magic is now more balanced than ever. To use magic as main damage source players are forced to make real sacrifices this time, no more easy mode.
Chaos pyros are not the best, i will take Chaos Bed Vestiges over Chaos Fireorb anytime, anywhere.
Casting speed is adjusted to spell power, the more powerfull the spell, the longer the casting speed, the longer the risk, makes total sense.
There are spells useful at all times, and there are spells useful in specific situations, there is plenty of variety and DLC will bring even more spells.
Forcing players that want to use magic as main damage source to fill ring slots with boost rings prevent these players to become OP with defenses, that is called balance!
You wanted a 2k damage CSS wearing FaP, Steel Protection and Havel ring???? To do real damage you need to do sacrifices and play carefully. Real casters need to GIT GUD now, no more dks1/dks2 easy mode.
Chaos pyros cannot be compared to normal version like that, you need to compare them by ATT slots reqs, not dmg output, sacrificing one slot for a spell is big cost.
Having to manage Ashen estus is another aspect of balance and sacrifice. You need to sacrifice you ability to recover health in order to keep casting, as a phantom this is MUCH more important than ever, since your estus are reduced to half.
Steady chant is FAR from useless, you just don't know how to use it right. Crystal Sage staff with Steady Chant will overpower any other catalyst in the game.
Hexes are still very useful, but for players that can cope with using more than one catalyst at the same time. My hexer uses Izalith Staff, Pyro Flame and Caitha's Chime. Shield + Flame offhand, Wep + Staff + Chime main hand, If i just want to be lazy (situations that don't need high dmg focus, i use only flame + crystal chime).
Pyromancy could have used a black/hollow pyro flame, since white hair talisman is crap (only useful to glitch sacred flame, which i hope get's patched soon), but there is always DLC for new stuff.
Removing infusions from catalysts prevents them from getting OP and would make have 'best'catalyst per magic type pointless. If Izalith staff was clearly made for dark magic, what would be the point of dark infusing it? Same for Court Sorcerer/Crystal Sage staff with crystal infusion.
Removing infusions from bows/greatbows/crossbows is however stupid.
disagree with ALL of that.-
Mac usb display app. https://castleyellow214.weebly.com/blog/what-is-dmg-seen-so-far. Mac cleaner 10.6.8. Another example is chaosstorm, it doesn’t have the drama and power of the DS2 version, as you know pyromancies TOP TIER spell.it doesn’t even match the ds1 version it’s just really underwhelming in animation and sound, the lave pools look really cut and paste as well. Cubase free download mac. https://etcbrown772.weebly.com/blog/mac-gopro-quik-android-download-conflict. https://jptpqe.weebly.com/blog/burn-dmg-to-external-dvd. https://castleyellow214.weebly.com/blog/download-safari-70-for-mac. Firefox dmg file. Lazy or rushed, it’s a shame. Download photos from iphone to mac preview.
- And on top of that you get easy access to top tier heavy armour while maintaining 50% burden for good roll distance and minimal stamina penalty. Considering Havel's can be the difference between taking 3000 from a BS or 800 that is a big difference.
- Armor in Dark Souls 3 provides the player with protection against damage and resistance to Status Effects, and adds Poise.In addition, armor is also a cosmetic choice, and individual pieces can be mixed and matched to create an optimized setup, from a defensive and fashion perspective.
- Effect: If enemy poisoned, increases poison dmg per turn (Note: This skill lasts for as long as the poison lasts, and because it has a 2 turn cool down, it can be used many times. For example: You cast Doku, the poison hits low, you cast Dokusei, the poison much higher, you wait two turns, and cast Dokusei again, the poison will hit even higher.
Magic is now more balanced than ever.
– What are you refereeing to as balance? What’s your benchmark? what variables are you measuring against. Dmg? PVp? PVE? So many variables. I simply talked about the execution, and the blancee was thee inability to use my offensive capabilities as often when I am summoned, despite investing heavily into one particular stat at the sacrifice of other states, yet this does NOT AFFECT OTHER BUILDS. That’s not balance.
To use magic as main damage source players are forced to make real sacrifices this time, no more easy mode
- that’s fine as well, so you know I went through all of NG ( 4 times) without a single point in END or VIG much like DS1 and 2, and yep I got one shot by mostly everything post mid game. Glass cannon/ or crowd control to pre empt and prevent dmg and is how a mage should operate. I never said it wasn’t so dot know what you’re on about here.
Chaos pyros are not the best, i will take Chaos Bed Vestiges over Chaos Fireorb anytime, anywhere.
Chaos pyromancies ARE the best. Chaos bed vestiges IS a chaos pyromancy, it’s actually in the title, and how funny its located right next to the other 2 chaos pyromancies halfway through the game, soooo yeah maybe you didn’t think that one through. Chaos bed is faster travelling spike dmg, the orb is slower but does two ticks of dmg comparable to chaos be and a stun for crowd control. So yeah they both do comparable dmg but have similar uses. Once again I don’t know what you’re on about here but pretty embarrassing for you.
Casting speed is adjusted to spell power, the more powerfull the spell, the longer the casting speed, the longer the risk, makes total sense.0-
this has been true in most souls games, I have no issue with this. I didn’t even raised casting speed itself as a standalone issue, I agree with this point, the strong the spell the longer the cast time, I mena look at soul geyser in DS2 used all your stamina, leaving you vulnerable and massive cast time, slow travel and tracking but good damage. That’s fine. My only issue was with firestorm, is having an extremely LONG cast time, that puts us at melee range in a game that is much faster and more aggressive than past games, where we will get one shot, and when the 3 second cast time is finished we are frozen in time, using a spell that only has a CHANCE of hitting, and when it does, it does significantly LESS damage than just lobbing a mid tier fireballs spells, once again poor execution. WHY EVEN USE this? Just stick to the same old fire balls spamming…. it’s about execution, maybe the could have added some slight Dot’s or a burning effect, you knower ally basic stuff that adds variety and skill to use spells. So once again don’t know why you raised this.
There are spells useful at all times, and there are spells useful in specific situations, there is plenty of variety and DLC will bring even more spells.
The point is agreed by most people especially those who specialise in magic more of the spells in DS# are worthless, and due to the dmg/FP ratio and tracking you’re limited to 2 or 3 spells, for effective execution, this was NOT true in previous games. You’re not a dedicated caster, so clearly you don’t understand these nuances.
Forcing players that want to use magic as main damage source to fill ring slots with boost rings prevent these players to become OP with defenses, that is called balance!
Really? Because in the end DS2 pvp as a pure caster, was very balanced probably even weighted more towards melee, especially with GMB and 100% magic negating equipment especially if you stayed in the meta, and it didn’t require 3 rings to be stacked for dmg, why don’t you do a little test and see how BALANCED a pure caster is in PVP. This was probably the least thought out of all your statements.
You wanted a 2k damage CSS wearing FaP, Steel Protection and Havel ring???? To do real damage you need to do sacrifices and play carefully. Real casters need to GIT GUD now, no more dks1/dks2 easy mode.
– I never said I wanted this why do you keep harping on about it like some broken record. did you get wrecked by a havel mage in DS2 ( still reeling and dealing with the PTSD?) , and I don’t need to GIT GUD, ive finished the game 4 times with no end or VIg other than starting states and only levelling ATN and FTH/INT. I hate Havel mages, I hate people who use giant metal swords and try and cast magic. We should be flimsy in our little robes running around with our staves and flames and scrolls. BUT FFS DO DID YOU YOU EVEN READ or comprehend my post? This is YET again not about DMG, its about if we are running around in ur little cloaks, give us some spells that more than just standing immobile casting a little arrow/spear or fireball. Especially when previous games already did it better.
Chaos pyros cannot be compared to normal version like that, you need to compare them by ATT slots reqs, not dmg output, sacrificing one slot for a spell is big cost.
- when you have to invest in enough FP to use pure magic you have multiple slots. I don’t even understand your point here.
Having to manage Ashen estus is another aspect of balance and sacrifice. You need to sacrifice you ability to recover health in order to keep casting, as a phantom this is MUCH more important than ever, since your estus are reduced to half.
*SIGH* I KNOW that. However, it’s NOT balanced compared to melee, you can swing your giant sword endlessly ( as long as you have stamina) I should, since I invested all my point into magic, be able to do the same ( within the FP standard limit) Why does a physical build get endless offensive but I get a limited resource to start with, that is ONCE again halved. The estus halving is fine we are glass cannons, but NOT the ashtus, its stupid. And saying “managing” lol youre not a dedicated cast dso let me tell you what managing means… spam great soul arrow/ and heavy great soul arrow. THAT’S IT. Everything else costs too much to cast repeatedly, and these are the only spells with the DMG to FP ratio that might actually hit. So you know…. let just be summoned and use two spells…. It’s ridiculous.
Ds1 Dragon Head Stone Dmg Per Tier 2
Steady chant is FAR from useless, you just don't know how to use it right. Crystal Sage staff with Steady Chant will overpower any other catalyst in the game.-
WOW! Did you once gain not read. I said its boring and mostly useless, and im annoyed that it was the ONE thing they added to catalysts, when there was opportunity for so much more. And IF you can actually read and comprehend, I actually said that crystal sage staff was a good idea for THAT one staff, I DO know how to use it correctly. So once again totally embarrassing for you
Hexes are still very useful, but for players that can cope with using more than one catalyst at the same time. My hexer uses Izalith Staff, Pyro Flame and Caitha's Chime. Shield + Flame offhand, Wep + Staff + Chime main hand, If i just want to be lazy (situations that don't need high dmg focus, i use only flame + crystal chime).-
hexes are terrible compared to pure sorceries and pyros imn terms of variety, and a mere shadow of themselves from DS2 it was a poor design choice, that removed an entire class.
Pyromancy could have used a black/hollow pyro flame, since white hair talisman is crap (only useful to glitch sacred flame, which i hope get's patched soon), but there is always DLC for new stuff.-
yes it could I am all about variety.
Removing infusions from catalysts prevents them from getting OP and would make have 'best “catalyst per magic type pointless. If Izalith staff was clearly made for dark magic, what would be the point of dark infusing it? Same for Court Sorcerer/Crystal Sage staff with crystal infusion.-
Youre missing the point there will always be a “best of staff” in any game, but the idea in DS2, would allow you to take the iazalith catalyst for example, with poor sorc scaling, and infuse it to make it a bit more usable for cosplay and fashun soulz, with out it being a totally useless item, to prevent this in DS2 some staves couldn’t be infused to prevent them form being too OP ( wisdom with dark, azl’s staff etc) , anyway if the stats were done right and scaling and bonus benefits were calculated with some forethought, in the first place it wouldn’t be an issue to start with. And like DS2 team did, they could slow the casting down to be a detriment, AND with the staff of wisdom for example the long length meant spacing was an issue. See… that’s how you balance something, give it an obvious benefit, but then some deficits as well.
Dragon Head Stone Dark Souls 3
Dragon Torso Stone
In future before yuo go on a rant, maybe read the post correctly, and address the points raised not endlessly rage on 80% of something completely different, and insult the poster, and please make Sure you know what you’re talking about otherwise, you come off looking like a fool.Last edited by Necromancer on Thu May 12, 2016 6:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.